The first thing that struck me about
this libertarian forum were the arguments of my other debater (the one
debating against me) that kept referring to the problem of socialism being that
Russian leadership under socialism and Chinese [leadership] had killed millions of people. I
always find this a bizarre way of arguing about economic systems, a kind of
a body count approach. But okay, if that’s what they want to do let’s make a
comparison. Capitalism has been the dominant system for the last 150-200
years, pretty much around the world. What’s its record in terms of the
killing of people out of capitalist competition, capitalist enmity, inside
countries [and] across countries? Well, it’s way in excess of anything that socialists
could claim. Let’s start with World Wars I & II. I mean, conservatively those killed
50 to 100 million people, somewhere already in a different league. And those
were wars that came out of competition among capitalist countries like Germany,
England, the United States, Japan, and so on. So, really are we gonna go down that road? Then there’s the thing called
colonialism and imperialism, in which capitalist countries (mostly in Europe)
went around the world killing huge numbers of people to make the whole
world useful and profitable to Europe. I mean, why do you think there was a slave
trade that basically destroyed Africa for hundreds of years,
diluting it of its people? That was in order to bring those Africans to the
Western Hemisphere first for sugar, and then for cotton, which were very
profitable commodities capitalists bought and sold. And then there was
colonialism everywhere else in the world. First book I ever wrote was an economic
study of Britain in Kenya in East Africa. And one of the things I discovered is
when the British arrived in 1895 they did a census. Four million Africans lived
in Kenya. 30 years later they did another census. 2.5 million people lived [there]. In that little country, over that few years,
1.5 million people disappeared. That has to be chalked up to capitalism.
So if you’re gonna go this route of counting the dead, sure you can make a
criticism of Stalin and Mao (they deserve criticism. Killing is not good anywhere).
But the idea that you have found a flaw in the capitalism-socialism debate is
bizarre. Why would you even go down that road especially with five minutes of
reflection showing you it’s not good for your side of the argument. Then there was
an even stranger kind of thing, very typical I think for libertarians.
The fellow on the other side argued that he agreed with me that capitalism was
full of flaws. I had laid those out, as I do on this program often, and he agreed
with me. He said it’s so bad he would call it (in his words) CRAP-italism.
Okay, everybody giggled. But then he kept saying to me “Yeah, it’s terrible. But your
socialism is worse.” “Why?” I asked. Well he answered “because then the government
will become very powerful and the government is bad.” I said, really
is the government bad by definition? Are we like talking in religion where God is
good and the devil is bad and the world is nicely organized in that way? Is the
government necessarily bad? And his basic answer to me was yes, the government ipso
facto is bad. And you don’t ask why the government does something?
Apparently among these folks they don’t explain it. It’s just sort of given.
Government is bad. What government does is unwanted, because it’s bad. The idea
that the government is what it is because of the society in which it
exists, that it doesn’t come fully finished out of nowhere but is a product
of the society that is trying to govern, that doesn’t seem to have gotten in.
I find that bizarre in the history of the United States when most observers
would agree that both in 1929 when the stock market crashed, and again in 2008
when the stock market crashed, everybody, led by the business community,
went to the government to save us. It saved us with a new deal in the 1930s,
and it saved us with the Bush and Obama stimulus programs. Apparently the
government sometimes does good things so the issue is why would the government
be unnecessary? Bad [argument].

Tagged : # # # # # # # # # #

85 thoughts on “Richard Wolff counters libertarian arguments against socialism”

  1. Someone ought to tell that "libertarian" about libertarian socialism, and also how the word libertarian was a word invented by socialists to describe a stateless socialism being advocated for because the word they were originally using (anarchism) was declared illegal by the French government of the time. It wasn't until much later that capitalists in the United States coopted the word libertarian to somehow mean someone who wants unregulated capitalism. It's kind of impressive they've gotten so many people to think that's what the word is supposed to be that even in Europe, where just 50 years ago libertarian meant libertarian socialist, libertarian socialists are having to specify that they mean they're socialists when they refer to themselves using the word!

  2. Colonialism and Capitalism formed a feedback loop.
    In India, nearly 27 Million people were killed by the British in their last 100 year rule.
    They exploited spice, indigo, jute, and opium producers (to continue their war in China) and fought an over 700 major battles with regional kingdoms, tribes along with Initiating a famine that cost the life of 4 million people.

  3. the problem with argumentum ad body count is that you've moved the debate from talking about which system is better to which system is worse.

  4. Libertarianism was a socialist concept until it got abused by conservatives, which now means: freedom for the rich, slavery for the poor.

  5. Russia and China are capitalists with totalitarian rulers. America is a republic with a capitalist economy. Government and economics are 2 different animals but one in the same.

  6. Socialism? Social concern is not to kill a lots of people, but serve life from 'we' perspective not from 'me' and then compete about who is bigger 'me' . So media blame, people who concern about every ones social well being, "they" are called socialists and whole idea socialism with main idea how to kill as many of us as possible? It is like socially accepted collective suicidal effort cooperatively watching each other , that no one cheat in the suicide mission? =O)

  7. Capitalism is competition about who is bigger 'me' ? and socialism is realization, that no one of us can even survive alone and start consider life from 'We' perspective.

  8. I think humans should evolve into a new type of government, one that mixes the good stuff from all the types. and there's plenty of good in each type. government is nothing but humans with their human behavior.

  9. It's kind of like the idea that because a person's mother wasn't inside the imaginary lines of a certain country when she gave birth, that child is automatically lesser than those inside those lines, and deserves no right to be free from being locked in cages. As if the coordinates of your mother's vagina at the time of your birth makes you more or less worthy of being treated like a human.

  10. Ugh. You should know better. Libertarians are traditionally socialist. The American version is NOT libertarian. They are propertarians.

  11. This argument was pathetic. Socialists don't end war. You lost the debate because the body count is in peace time from gulags and starvation caused by collectivism of one's own government. Watch the dabate.

  12. This was an open goal for so long, I'm glad someone finally said it. The difference is intent. Mao's mismanagement of the food supply did not intend to create a famine but the capitalist wars, imperialism and slavery were exactly what the "markets" wanted.

  13. Capitalism is imperialism cousin and imperialism taught capitalism that you set the rules and don't apply them to yourself!

  14. Prof Wolff, you are not addressing the qualification made by your counterpart:
    That these deaths were inflicted on foreign ppl not so much on the domestic population. the latter was clearly the thing of the "socialists" countries during the 20th century (and still in NK and Cuba), and not of the "capitalists" ones. Warfare seems at the end independent of the economic system so far.
    I guess the answer would be that you are proposing the "real" socialism (Co-ops), actually anarcho syndicalism.

    And yet here, u did not address at all the counter argument on decision-making costs of the co-operative. How to overcome these? It's possible?
    This is for me the economic core of the issue.

  15. Russian communism was created and financed by capitalists. Chinese communism was created out of a capitalist instigated civil war. Libertarianism is just another capitalist disguise. A new economic system developed by the poor and working class devoid of bourgeois precepts is the only solution.

  16. I’ve noticed a sudden resurgence (bots?) of people on discussion boards making the same stale libertarian arguments on behalf of billionaires; that all of our economic problems and social ills are due to excessive taxation and regulation, and that if we only had a a”real free market” with no government or taxes or regulations, we would live in a utopia. If that we’re so, then Kansas would have the greatest economy in the US and Somalia would be the envy of the world.

  17. Two questions for Professor Richard Wolff

    Dear Professor Wolff

    First of all, I would like to warmly greet you, and the entire Democracy at Work team, for your work in promoting Marxism. I’d especially like to single out David Harvey about his lectures on Marx Capital.

    My name is Michał Nowicki, although on the Internet I am known rather as Camarade Michael and I am the author of the Rebirth of Communism YT channel. I've been watching films with your participation for about a year now, and we've even translated some of the films to Polish. I also quite often refer to your lectures in my videos. Thanks to mine and my comrades’ publicity, you have slowly become a person well-known in Poland both among people with leftist views and among anti-communists.

    Just like you, I am a Marxist, although we share different views as to Marx's famous eleventh thesis on Feuerbach. We Polish communists describe ourselves as continuators of the Bolshevik tradition and our model is rather Lenin and the October Revolution than Roosevelt and New Deal.

    Our social status in the capitalist system is also different. I am a worker and have to admit that a scientific career for Marxists is simply impossible in an anti-communist country such as Poland.

    I have two questions for you about my country – Poland.

    The first question concerns Polish capitalism. Recently we celebrated in Poland the 100th anniversary of Poland regaining independence. We divide this 100-year period into 50 years of capitalism (1918-1939) (1989-2019) and 45 years of socialism, plus of course World War II.

    Why is Polish capitalism so backward/retarded? We can observe the same atrocities/defects both before the war and after 1989. Mass unemployment, starving children, problems with access to housing and much more. With all my criticism towards capitalism, I must admit that it was in some ways an innovative system in the US or Western Europe. For example, in the welfare state era an average American worker could afford a decent life.

    In capitalist Poland, a worker’s life is always miserable. In capitalist Poland there is no innovation, no ideas we’d call here literally a ‘Polish technical thought’. In capitalist Poland, Polish car factories were even being massively closed. Both before the war and after 1989, Polish capitalism is completely dependent on Western countries and our role is reduced to the one of assembly workers.

    In short, the capitalist system is a curse for Poles, and I am all the more surprised by the fact that many Poles love this system so much. Me and my comrades, we believe that in the capitalist system Poland will always be a third category country, there will always be misery in us and I am not even able to understand how this system can be supported in Poland.

    The second question will be much shorter. Why did many Westerners, including American Marxists, support counter-revolutionary forces in Poland, led by Lech Walesa, whose goal was to restore capitalism?

    Thank you in advance for your answer, which we will definitely translate to Polish. I hope that one day you will visit our country, where we will organize a debate with some Polish equivalent of the anti-communist freak like Jordan Peterson.

    Communist Greetings

    Michał Nowicki

  18. The major issues of Soviet:
    – politically: it suppressed alternative views & solutions

    – economically: it distorted free market distribution, no efficient production and heavy subsidized housing, electricity and food.

    The outcome was disastrous bc they did not liberate the ppl as they promised, make them collaborate more productively.

    Just as US capitalism is not liberating 90% of Americans or Europeans for that matter. 😫

    You need a Nordic Model 😁

  19. how many millions of people die from starvation very year i the underdeveloped world? though exploitation of capitalist countries? last i checked it was over 100 Millions a year, but they are poor they are weak they have no voice lets just forget about them, Its ALL down to greed control n power, when a country has the power it takes from others whatever they want bee like this since the world began, same with wars they are ALL for fought for the same reasons they may use any reason they wish but its meaningless sadly nothing will change without intervention from Above

  20. THIS IS NONSENSE. Socialism and capitalism form a dialectical unity, which shapes history………….. THERE IS NO CHOICE BETWEEN GOOD AND BAD!!!!!!!!!!!!!! THERE IS ONLY CONSERVATISM AND STUPID FEAR OF SOCIALISM………

  21. While i agree with Mr Wolff , the whole WW2 argument in the beginning and counting those deaths as "deaths of capitalism" seem a but far fetched . WW2 was a was against Fascism , yes one could draw parallels between capitalism and Fascism , as in protecting the powerful etc but saying that those death were "deaths because of capitalism" is an oversimplification same as saying that people who died in the USSR and PRC were "deaths of communism".

  22. You did an amazing job during that debate professor Wolff. It's as if they just can't admit they are ultimately going to get to the same place you are…
    Cheers to you. Thank you for sharing your insight with the world.

  23. Blaming the two world wars and colonialism on capitalism is ridiculous. The strong and the dominant groups of the world have always preyed on the weaker groups, clear back to the time of tribalism, hundreds of centuries before capitalism ever developed.

  24. "It saved us in the 1930s"

    The tactical pro-war sentiment on this program is amazing. I can take the good with the bad for education's sake, but just wanted to point out that head-scratcher.

    Where was the money at from the Capitalists that put us in a position to need "saving" in the first place, Rich?

  25. They like to use the "millions of deaths" argument to trivialize the great achievements the soviets and other socialist countries have made for their people. Another thing about that statistic is that it's not even valid as the people who got those numbers came from rumors, guesses, and gossip and even two contributors to the black book of communism moved away from it and downright denounced it.

  26. Reactionaries always like to cite that number, "socialism killed 100 million", with C.I.A "sources" and think tanks backed by literal fascists

  27. It's funny how Americans take a word that means something in the rest of the world & then twist it to mean the opposite of what it meant. Libertarianism was originally a 'Leftist' socialist movement – not 'Anarchist' in as much as the anarchists wanted no government at all – but rather seeking limited small government. Libertarain as opposed to Authoritarian. Socialist in as much as that limited government was there to use taxation to fund social projects & social infrastructures – but limited so no police state of oppression (just Law enforcement) no offensive military (just defensive military). That limits the power of the government (and the 'cost') unlike the authoritarian Socialists like Stalin, Mao et al. In short – there is such a thing (in fact it's the original) as Libertarian socialism – and these days there's even Eco-Libertarian Socialism.

  28. Many of us think of love as a strong emotion, a feeling we have for another person. Take a wholly different and life-enriching approach to love. Love is something you "do", something you give freely from the heart. Learn how to express yourself nakedly and honestly to your partner, friends, or family, for no other purpose than to reveal what's present or alive in you. Discover what thousands of people around the world already know: A heart to heart connection strengthened by joyfully giving and receiving from the heart. Is that love you longing to experience? The never agree to less.
    We can enforce anti usury laws.

  29. Dr. Wolff needs to explain why both Common Sense by Thomas Paine and why The Wealth of Nations by Adam Smith both advocate for capitalism but both warn of greed and excessive accumulation of wealth. Or the Holy Bible for that matter. Greed is a sin.

    Paine admired the Iroquois for their democratic culture and was an advocate for the freeing of slaves.

    Adam Smith was interested in public schools and investing in education, seeing as learning is the key to individual freedom.

    There's even arguments for providing a universal basic income.

    Wolff is adamant capitalism is about greed and money when most of its thought leaders make a point to call out monopoly corporations and corrupt Governments.

  30. Like you said , to some people The Government is always bad and everything they do is bad. I do not agree with that . Government can be good or bad and certain programs can be good or bad and sometimes certain programs are abused by some people.

  31. Dr. Wolff, I'm not too sure that the example of what the Bush-Obama regimes did in response to the 2008 financial crisis is a particularly good example of the positive aspects of government.
    I'd stick to waste disposal, highways & roads, universal education, national parks and the like.
    The Wall Street bailout didn't "save" us… it set us up for the big one. It was precisely the wrong strategy… as you have often described elsewhere.

  32. difficult to counter their body count argument because libertarians believe it's the individual's own fault if he/she dies early under capitalism.

  33. Government is inherently bad, that much is true. It doesn't mean that everything they do is bad though. Police and taxation are inherently bad/immoral. Libertards got that right. What they don't get is that people can't own their environment (natural resources) without initiation of force which contradicts their own argument (non aggression principal). And of course, once you got natural resources privatized people have NO choice but to work for those who claim to own them. So it's not VOLUNTARY.

  34. Wolff completely misrepresents his opponent's arguments in this video. Or he's so unfamiliar with libertarian arguments that he didn't understand his opponent's arguments. Either way, it explains why he lost. Wolff is duping all of you.

  35. Authoritarian leftist movements killed people because they were consolidating power and suppressing resistance.

    These were heinous acts and deserve condemnation.

    Capitalism kills people as a matter of daily business. Dead people is just another Tuesday under capitalism.

    These are ongoing heinous acts and deserve condemnation.

  36. Religion is actually for government.

    At least the Christian religion.

    The Bible specifically says to trust government for it works for the Lord.

    And the Catholic scriptures also refer to this same or similar text where you should trust government for it works for the Lord. That is one of the few things Catholics are said to follow.

  37. Governments are tools. Who weilds that tool and for what purpose should be the question

  38. It was difficult to watch the Q&A at the libertarian forum, I almost felt sorry for the young students asking such embarrassing questions. Wolff was visibly perturbed he even had to answer them.

  39. Thanks for this video. I think you'v'e just put your finger on the reason why your debate partner could frequently agree with your criticisms and with your claims, yet still vociferously defended his position. Fear of governement (control). Ironically, to remotely "fix" the severe problems with what he called "croney capitalism" would require government intervention.

  40. Most people that listen to anti-government arguments don't know the difference between this Federal Constitutional Republic and Democratic Centralism or representative democracy and direct democracy.

  41. Of course there's been war over capital. Capital is resources. Clean drinking water is capital. Lumber is capital. Land is capital. Gold, silver, copper – all capital. Hell, even beaver pelts are capital.

    It's simply a matter of what people find to be of value and worth – that's always subject to change.

    Do you think people didn't fight each other over clean water for drink and crops in Ancient Mesopotamia?

    Do you think Native American tribes didn't duke it out over hunting grounds and fertile land, particularly after a bad season?

    Even the American Revolution was about trade, taxes & economic independence.

    Monarchies (i.e. governments) sent their soldiers to foreign land for gold & power. This has been true throughout all major civilizations and empires. Ergo, governments can be interpreted as bad.

    (side note: America was "discovered" while looking for trade routes to India)

    Does this channel think the American government has ever been a force for good?

    Doesn't sound like Dr. Wolff makes that case, except maybe FDR, but FDR burned surplus crops during the Great Depression, to keep crop prices down. What, no extra food for extra work or even a "congratulations guys you grew so much food so to celebrate let's have a feast!"?

    He also allowed the Japanese to bomb Pearl Harbor so we could declare war with them and the Germans (both of the Axis powers were economically expanding at the time). It's not uncommon knowledge that war is profitable and good for building economies, particularly for a young nation experiencing terrible economic depression and failing social programs. Presidents in good economies usually get re-elected, especially when there's no laws about limited terms.

    Why did the Aztecs go to war?
    Or the Sumerians?

    Stalin had to revolt against the Russian Tsar (again, the "not evil" gov't Wolf says can never exist) to gain control of Russian capital. He had to expel or murder millions of farmers who resisted collectivism to make farmland for the new labor class.

    If we're going to play this game, explain how he was ultimately different from everyone else, every civilization.

    Wolff's argument against capitalism completely removes human psychology and economic reality.

  42. Nothing is what it seems anymore… our flagship “capitalist” nation, The United States, seems to closely resemble the Soviet Union in what to me appears to be an acute centralization of ownership and control by a select few. Whichever the banner they choose to fly, A select few will always be a select few.

    I think that both Socialism and Libertarianism attempt to or aspire to battle against the natural tendency for power and wealth to concentrate in the hands of too few. Where the Goldilocks zone is on this scale of too few vs too many is hard to say. It seems that once the balance goes to far in either direction then sociopolitical chaos is just around the corner.

    I do think that both True Libertarianism and socialism pursue a similar end result in an equitable distribution of wealth and power throughout society. I’ll hold to that both isms probably have some experience and strategies to bring to the table. I’ll also hold to that both isms like all isms are subject to the perversions of power and wealth and that the real battle is the constant recognition of the power of fear and influence vs the power of voluntary goodwill and cooperation. These are within and without all the isms whichever the Banner. Choose your leaders wisely try very hard not to be misled.

    BERNIE 2020!!!

  43. Our frustration with centralization and despair for democratization of ownership are conditions easily exploited by intelligent and calculated actors. I have to go with Bernie as he has a consistent 50 year track record of operating according to a deep personal morality. I do not hold it impossible however that he is also a deceiver planted by a principality playing a very long game. The probability of this seems impossible though so here we go.

    BERNIE 2020

    …But then the Jesuits have been playing passive aggressive for the Papacy for 500 years.

  44. Nobody in their right mind believed the stimulus Obama approved had any real impact on the US economy. That money went to both citizens and corporations – providing them with tax breaks, something this channel often cries foul when the Republicans or those damned corporate Democrats do it.

    But if that's the case I'm wrong and that it did in fact work, providing the People with small amounts of cash to stimulate the economy, why are you and fanboys such as Michael Brooks trying to suggest that Yang's UBI proposal be a total failure in practice?

  45. It's amazing how much a socialist can lie right to your face as if he actually thinks it is true. Wolff you're doing that right here as you repeat the same lies from the debate.

    1. Capitalism is not the dominant economic system. We have a mixed economic system, and capitalism isn't causing people to starve. The most starvation occurs within the least capitalist places.
    2. World Wars are not from capitalism. Governments are using government owned military. More lies. That's socialism at work. The military is a socialist enterprise, not a capitalist one. The other economic arguments I can forgive, but attributing both World Wars to capitalism is the most dishonest bullshit I've seen in ages.
    3. Colonialism and imperialism are not capitalism. Again more dishonesty. Governments engaged in imperialism and colonialism, not private enterprise.
    4. Slavery predated capitalism. Saying "b-but markets!" does not save your argument. Even socialists will generally admit that markets are not unique to capitalism. Slavery has gone on for millenia.
    5. Again, government of Britain is not capitalism.
    6. Yes, the government is itself coercive. That's why it is bad. See Nozick's Tale of the Slave or Larken Rose's "If you were king" video.
    7. The 1929 and 2008 crashes were not capitalism. They were caused by the Fed and they sure as fuck were not cured by the government programs and stimulus. More lies because apparently that's all socialists have these days.

  46. Liberals and other moderates are counterproductive to the solidarity of workers. Their was a REASON why Stalin and Mao had them eliminated, because counterrevolutionary sentiments are just as dangerous as Capitalist intervention.

  47. American Libertarianism = Billionaire Koch bros' = Milton Friedman's utopian anarcho-capitalism + Ayn Rand's utopian hyperindividualism … notice the common thread?

    Democratic socialism is likely the most sustainable form of government ever conceived. If capitalism continues to go too far, communism maybe a necessary evil temporarily to turn things around before the planet, society and species collapse.

  48. Justice Robert Jackson, he of Nuremberg trial fame, said the most dangerous person was the leader of the Libertarian movement. That was at the end of ww2.

  49. The libertarian dude was a joke. I also just noticed you don't name him haha im happy to see youre avoiding giving his name, the dude doesnt deserve a platform, he is arguing in bad faith nonstop. You mopped the floor with that guy.

  50. I never thought about until Richard pointed it out that the argument that it sounds nice to say : the free market and capitalism mean freedom. And socialism and government are bad because they control people, so take away freedom etc but actually once you come in the capitalistic working place, you are not free at all and there is plenty of control like there is a little government in each company.

  51. ideology ruins everithing, 4 -5th of the planet have bad economies, they are dealing with goverments that have secret services, so the instantly cheat, they lie, they tel you only what you have suposedly to know, the US is no diferent, in this. who sales arms, goverments, who makes wars, goverments, what a planet do you live in, when you cant see this, but seriousliy, in the end the goverment has it in his hand to avoid the worst. Dont why all wish the goverment takes care, but they dont, they rather seek workplaces for there relatives, and you got only atention if you pay for it, as you should know the the invisible hand with lots of dollars, ist the only thing they understand. of course as a profesor, this is hart to understand, since your never in this possition, to even understand how corrupt the normal capitalist, socialist economy ist. If your a dumb poor person, it actualy doesnt matter in what society you live in, it looks like the ass of the world, and thats i am not a libertarian, you have to have money to pay your way out of society, to be free, on the cost of the many

  52. You already brought this point up. To which the conservative guest said you’re comparing what the soviets and Chinese did to their own people compared to what Americans did to other countries. Not what American have done to Americans. Nice try though boss 🤙🏻

    Capitalist india managed to kill 90 million extra people from 1947-1976 due to lack of health, infrastructure and education which Mao provided communist china with. This was a study conducted by Jean dreze and Amartya sen which pointed out the flaws of china ( famines which killed 30 million due to authoritarian structure , lack of information flow and so on) and the flaws of India. Despite the brutal famines india killed 90 million extra people. So people saying communism killed 90-100 million people: the biggest Capitalist nation killed 90 million extra people as compared to the biggest communist nation from 1947 to 1976. Stop counting deaths. It won't get us anywhere. Empires caused so many deaths, but we can't wipe them out can we? Wipe them out and we wipe out 2500 years of progress. Empires weren't fully bad or fully good.. they just were.

  54. He just talked about Russia, China, colonialism, and WWII. Is he really making the case that government is good or should be continued? They are just the military and police of the rich. I don't care what economic system they call it. The common denominator of all the millions of people killed he mentions is government. Not sure why he did not just agree with the guy that government is the problem.

  55. 0:34 false
    0:52 WW1 & WW2 are examples of government tyranny not capitalism. Not like McDonald's vs Denny's. It was the US government vs Japan, Germany, Russia, etc etc.
    1:19 colonialism by the British GOVERNMENT, next
    2:58 misleading, Gene Epstein called crony capitalism, not capitalism, "crapitalism"
    3:16 interesting story but this dialog never happened in real life 😆
    3:45 strawmans Libertarians by implying we have no reason why "government is bad".
    4:20 the mises institute website has many books and articles about the new deal. Suggest you all to check it out

    In summary, Dr. Wolff basically lied through this whole video. Lied about Libertarians being unable to explain why government is bad, lied about his exchange with Gene Epstein, and lied about WW1&WW2 being the fault of capitalism when it was perpetrated by government

  56. This video is obviously made in bad faith. You misrepresent or omit the actual arguments made by your opponent. To say libertarians don't explain what's wrong with government (or any other violent institution) is just ignorant. You cannot be that ignorant, you probably are just disingenuous.
    I would urge people to watch the debate for themselves, and form their own opinions.

  57. Why not count people killed in all wars fought over natural and human resources by gangs of the wealthiest .1% who sought either to expand the resources under their control or to defend their resources under their control from another gang? That would pretty much include every war fought in the past 2,000 years including the Crusades and the wars of the Roman Empire.

  58. And for those people who think Socialism/Communism is evil because a few people who called themselves socialists/communists did some evil things, should we also ban all religions just because a few people who called themselves Christians/Muslims/etc. committed crimes just as horrific?

  59. It's not the ism that kills people. People kill people. Communism didn't murder all of those people, Stalin did. Capitalism didn't murder all thoes people in ww 2, Hitler did. Until the human condition evolves we'll still be killing each other as we always have. Nazism is a perversion parading as socialism. The brain dead system we have is corporatism parading as capitalism. Meet the new boss, same as the old boss. Until you change the ist, the ism is redundant. Understand too that the american empire is dying and we won't have the ability to print money ad infanitem for much longer. The siren song of free everything will cast us upon the siren's rocks.

  60. yeah but why does wolff never discuss libertarian socialism as a credible pathway? i like workplace democracy, but what about direct democracy too?

  61. An unfettered capitalist government seems to be about the worst thing we can have. All the politicians are run by banks & monopolistic corporations, & are perpetually at war, to milk the lower classes dry & steal resources from their foreign competition, while the country's infrastructure crumbles & the environment is completely polluted.
    We do have a bunch of lords & ladies sitting on nests of wealth that they couldn't spend in a hundred lifetimes, toasting each other amidst the flames & ever rising body count of the apocalypse though… Apparently, to the robotic mind of the capitalist, that is somehow, "winning…"

  62. A lot of them are 'government = definitionally bad' types because of the NAP; doesn't matter the consequences, aggression or "initiating force" is always wrong, and collecting taxes is for some reason in this category. This falls apart pretty easily since initiating force isn't always wrong; e.g. suppose the only way to stop a child who's about to walk off a cliff is to tackle them. And taxes aren't necessarily initiating force; if the government redistributes Bill Gates' wealth, it's not like that wealth was his to begin with.

  63. It's strange how many conservative Right Wingers gloat about how inefficient Communism and Socialism are. Look at China. They are running Rings around every other Economy. But to me I would not want to live there. I believe in a centre political position with a good blend of Capitalism and social policies. Maybe that's just a Pipe dream.

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