Athena: Aloha everyone and welcome to another
episode of Trauma Recovery University. I’m your host Athena Moberg and with me in the
green room is my amazing, amazing co-host Bobbi Parish and tonight’s topic is emotional
regulation. We love to talk to adult survivors of child abuse, specifically adult survivors
of childhood sexual abuse. So if that is you, you are tuned in to the correct broadcast
and we are so excited and blessed that you have decided to spend this hour of your evening
with us. So emotional regulation – let’s talk about
that a little bit. I hope this hair doesn’t stay in my face like the whole night and drive
me crazy. Emotional regulation, what is that? And what does it mean to be emotionally regulated
versus emotionally disregulated? And how can we choose to sort of master emotional regulation
or even learn about how it works? How will that help our recovery journey from healing
in our adult life from all of the aftereffects of our child abuse? So we’re going to unpack
all of that tonight. We do have as always our complimentary OnePage
downloadable resource for you just as a thank you for being one of our loyal listeners,
viewers, subscribers or just an awesome survivor. I’m going to direct you to where you can
download that complimentary OnePage resource. Typically when you’re listening to this, you’re
going to go to TraumaRecoveryUniversity.com and you are going to click on a tab that says
Downloadables. You will be given immediate access. You’ll fill your e-mail address and
be given immediate access to our entire library of downloadable OnePage resources. If you
are watching or listening live right now on September 14, 2015, you’re actually going
to go to our project website because I’m still working on the back end of the Trauma
Recovery University website. So that web address is NoMoreShameProject.Com. Click on the tab
that says Downloadables and you’ll be given immediate access to that OnePage downloadable
resource, page all the way down to the bottom where it says Child abuse survivors and Emotional
regulation and just click on. The OnePage should pop up and you’ll be able to follow
along during the teaching portion of tonight’s broadcast.
If this is your first time tuning in to join us on our channel, first we want to welcome
you and tell you how excited we are that you’re here to join our family and we want to basically
just give you a really brief synopsis of what you can expect from us here on our channel.
Me, Athena Moberg, and my partner Bobbi Parish, she’s in the green room. We come here every
single week and we do a live interactive Q&A broadcast for adult survivors of childhood
abuse specifically childhood sexual abuse. So if you have questions about, if you were
abused as a child or perhaps your spouse or a loved one was abused as a child or maybe
even your mom or dad and you happen to know about it and you want to know how to better
understand their recovery journey or your own recovery journey in your recovering from
child abuse, then that’s what we show up every single week. You can tweet us questions every
single Monday by using the hashtag #NoMoreShame. And we also monitor this hash tag 7 days a
week and we try to respond in especially if you tag us in the tweet. I’m at @AthenaMoberg
and my amazing partner Bobbi is at @BobbiLParish. That would be very, very helpful so that we
can re-tweet you, respond to you directly and if you have a suggestion for a topic that
we should discuss on one of our broadcasts, we would love to hear from you.
If you are tuning in on a podcast platform such as itunes, Sound Cloud, Spreaker or even
iheart Radio, we want to remind you this is a video broadcast. And so you can find everything
or one of our videos from all of Season I and then as we’re going to be transitioning
into Season II with maybe some shorter broadcasts and some extra bonus videos and so forth,
you can find us by going to youtube.com/TraumaRecoveryUniversityTV or you can go to any Roku device and find
us very simply by just typing in TRA on your Roku Television or your Roku device or just
search for Trauma Recovery University and you’ll have access to everything. So we look
forward to supporting you in your recovery journey and we always are very intent on providing
you with healthy informed trauma recovery resources. So welcome, welcome, welcome.
I’m so excited that you’ve chosen to join us for this broadcast for this very important
topic of emotional regulation. And I’m going to turn this over to my incredible partner
Bobbi Parish who’s going to update us on this year’s annual anthology and perhaps anything
else. NoMoreShame November’s coming up, we’re going to issue a trigger warning, who
you can reach out over to our friends at RAINN- all of that. And while I turn this over to
my amazing partner Bobbi Parish, I’m going to step away from the computer for just a
moment and I’ll be right back. Take it away Bobbi.
Bobbi: Ok sounds good. We do want to issue a trigger warning for this video episode.
We are talking about child abuse and sometimes specifically childhood sexual abuse. So, be
very patient with yourself. Practice excellent self care and if you need to step away from
the broadcast, we have found that survivors are very digitally oriented because they grew
up with needing to be constantly watching their visual surroundings to see if they’re
safe. So these videos in particular can be very triggering for you. If you’re watching
tonight and you get triggered, just go ahead and walk away and you can come back any time
and watch the replay on YouTube. It takes but a matter of a couple of hours after we’re
finished with our Google hangouts for them to be up on YouTube and ready for you to view
and you can do that any time. You can watch 10 minutes at a time, you can watch 5 minutes
at a time, whatever it is that will help you to get the information without feeling unsafe.
If you do get triggered and you’re in crisis, please reach out to RAINN. They have a toll
free hotline number 1-800-656-HOPE
and then they also have their website where they have a crisis chat feature and that is
at rainn.org. So please reach out to them if you’re in crisis or you need help urgently.
They can also help you locate local resources so that you can get help in person or perhaps
find a therapist that you might be looking for.
We also want to give you a heads up. It’s September. We are becoming very close to November
and November, if you remember from last year is NoMoreShame November. That’s the month
that we do a lot of advocacy work for adult survivors of childhood abuse. It’s also
where we work to spread a lot of awareness for what we go through and just about the
whole childhood abuse piece, that myth that strangers are child molesters whereas the
truth is that 94% of children know their abuser. It’s not stranger danger. If you would like
to help us, share information and join in the advocacy. Please go to our website NoMoreShameproject.com
and there’s a tab that says Pinnables and if you look there, you’ll find a button that
Athena created that you can download and either put on your blog or you can use it as your
avatar during the month of November and we would be honored if you did so that we can
continue to spread information about child abuse, especially childhood sexual abuse.
We’re going to be doing a blog round up in November like we did last year. So if you
have a blog where you write about childhood sexual abuse either as your experience or
just information and education, send us the name of that blog at [email protected]
and we’ll put it up on the website so that people can have a look at it. Also I am working
very hard with our publisher Book Trope in order to get the first and second volumes
of our anthology out in November. So take a look for those. I am positive that the Volume
I will be out by November and I’m pretty sure that the Volume II will be out in a little
later in the month of November but it will be there. So watch for announcements. If you’d
like to get on our e-mail list, go over to NoMoreShameproject.com, put in your e-mail
and your name and then we will send you notifications when all of the awesome things happen. I think
it’s about it. While you were gone Athena, I gave a trigger
warning and gave them RAINN’s information. And just a shout out already, I notice that
Jack and Beth and Stu are all watching. We’re so glad that you’re here. We really appreciate
your support and your encouragement as we do our live episodes.
Athena: Simmi is here. Hi Simmi. Bobbi: Simmi is here. For those of you who
don’t know, we do three Twitter chats a week. One of them is Monday at 10am Pacific time
and that one was primarily started to reach our UK audience and that would be 6pm Greenwich
Mean time for them. And then there is this Twitter chat which is a live video Twitter
chat combination, 6pm Pacific Standard Time. Athena: Every week I say, if you’re turning
in instead of tuning in. So maybe you’re getting it from me. It’s okay either way.
Bobbi: And then Tuesday night at 6pm Pacific Time and the hasthag for that is #sexabusechat.
The hashtag for the one that we do Monday at 10am Pacific Time is #CSAQT which stands
for child sexual abuse question time. So anything else Miss Athena that you want to add before
we jump into content? Athena: Yes I do. I want to say hello to Sarah
and I want to say hello to Megan. Aloha you two and I wanted to say hi to Susan shiny
blue dresses. Susan’s tuning in live as well. And I didn’t say turning in live this
time. I’m really excited that you’re all here tonight. I’ve been forgetting things. I was
telling Bobbi before we went live that I’m struggling with forgetting things this week
because I’m a little overwhelmed as I’m getting ready to travel and go speak at a
conference which you guys I need your prayers. I need your prayers, I need your good thoughts
or whatever is that you believe in because I mean, I speak publicly every single week
here with you guys about everything but getting up on a stage in front of people that are
not survivors, that are really prominent people in the community, they own their own businesses,
they run their own organizations, they’re pastors of churches. I’m getting up in front
of all of them and I’m sharing part of my story. I’m sharing my coaching modality
that I founded. I’m sharing everything and it’s kind of a big deal and I think that might
be why I’m forgetting things. My executive functioning is just sort of like in freaking
out and I’m having a lot of dad stuff come up. I like had all these dreams about my dad
and then I saw his voice mails like still on my phone and of course they listen to them.
So that was really emotional for me because I got an email this morning about this. I’m
like a one pick runner that was helped by his dad and so anyway I just have a lot of
stuff that’s going on so I need your prayers. And I appreciate your support every single
time I reach out and I tell you that I need you. You guys are amazing and I received so
much support and I feel your prayers. So I published a book. I got invited to speak
at a church in Florida and that entrepreneurial women’s conference in November in Montgomery,
Alabama. And I just recently yesterday Bobbi, I have a new one chance to tell you that I
got invited to stay over in Seattle longer and change my flight. They want to take care
of the charges and everything for me to say at the hotel and discuss our project, our
NoMoreShame Project and Trauma Recovery University and Trauma Recovery Ministries and possibly
speaking at their church. Their church has 4 locations for campuses. They have 7 services
on Sunday mornings. It’s a really big church. They have an entire ministry for people that
are that are coming and living lives, wanting to get away from the sex trade. A high percentage,
up close to 90% of all of their people that they’re ministering to, are adult survivors
of childhood sexual abuse. So they’re my pimps. I’m so excited.
So that’s all coming up in the next 7 days. Eight days, nine days, like the next. I’m
a little bit like not emotionally regulated so this broadcast is in perfect timing. I’m
like the perfect subject for us to talk about because I’m not emotionally regulated as
emotionally regulated as I normally am. My coping strategies, my self-soothing techniques
and my crisis management plan have sort of been in. I’m going back and forth to it
in the middle of all this work I’m doing and the websites and the booking travel and
changing travel and just everything. So, I wanted to just let you guys know that, just
let you know where I’m at emotionally. I’m always very transparent with you and each
time I show up and I’m just transparent, I get messages from you guys like “Wow if
you wouldn’t have said that, I never would have known I wasn’t alone.” So I’m just
going to keep doing that, I’m going to keep showing up and I’m just going to keep being
real you guys. Perfect segue on me just keeping it real.
I want to say something to you people right now. Thank you everybody that’s tweeting
and oh my gosh hello. There is a lot of people. Hi Melissa. Okay, so I need to talk to you
guys. This is a really big deal. If you are not familiar with our broadcasts and you’re
not familiar with our online safe support communities or even if you are, I’m going
to say something to some people out there right now who are cyber bullying and perhaps
treating some of our community members not very kindly. I want you to know that it’s
inappropriate and it’s unacceptable and I’m glad that I don’t know who you are because
I would be all mama bear all over your ass right now. It’s not even funny.
People show up in our community because they want support, they need support and they need
support from you as well if you’re hosting a chat or if you have an online group. They’re
trusting you with their deepest part of themselves and for you to exploit that or not treat it
gingerly and carefully and with kid gloves and just lovingly is predatory on your part
and it’s inappropriate and it’s wrong. so if you are new to this broadcast and you’re
looking for a safe support community so you can be welcomed in and just show up warts
and all and just be yourself and just be loved unconditionally and not abused or mistreated
in any way, then you come to the right place because we have a zero, zero, zero, zero.
We have a zero tolerance policy for abuse in every single one of our community. There
has to be a mutual respect. There needs to be mutual kindness. There needs to be a mutual
reciprocity and deliverance of compassion that comes in every single area of all that
we do. So if you’re a compassionate person and you’re wanting to get welcomed into a
safe community and you’re willing to show compassion to others and not be abusive, then
we would like to welcome you and you may contact us at [email protected] and just
know that we won’t stand for any of it. If there is anyone that is going to be abusive
towards any of our peeps, they’re out for good. Not welcome back. So that is all I wanted
to say in a very emotionally regulated way. Bobbi?
Bobbi: We have been so blessed with the community that we have online other than a few trolls
showing up in our Twitter streams and doing wacko crazy things because they see the hashtag
#sexabusechat and they think some cell about webcam model kind of thing. We have been so
blessed with the people who come into our support groups and the people that are in
our Twitter. I have to say in all the years that I have been working with survivors, I
have never worked with a community that is encouraging and supportive like the people
that we have and it is amazing. And I wish I could take every single survivor out there
and plug you in to one of our communities whether it’s our Twitter community or one
of our Facebook groups or whatever it is that suits you best because it is so powerful.
We’ve said it before and we’ll say it again. Community is shame’s kryptonite.
There is healing in community and it is a life changer. Really, it’s a life changer.
There’s magic in being loved and supported and encouraged like the people in our community
do for one another. So, if you would like to join one of our Facebook
groups, to join the Twitter community, just need to show up for one of the Twitter chats,
I promise you that people will say “Hey this is your first time. We know each other
so well that we know who’s new.” So people will welcome you. And if you’d like to join
one of our secret private Facebook groups, send us an email or friend either Athena or
I on Facebook. And then send us a private message saying “I would like to be added
to one of your secret support groups.” We also recently, after having the Narcissistic
Abuse Event go so well, we started a secret Facebook group for survivors of narcissistic
abuse. So you are more than welcome to also friend us and send us a private message. Just
make sure you let us know whether you want to be in the adult survivors of childhood
abuse support group or the narcissist abuse survivor group.
Athena: Hey Bobbi. Bobbi: Yes.
Athena: I received a message. I forgot to tell you this. I received a message. I think
it was yesterday. I am forgetting a lot of stuff. So it was either yesterday or the day
before and someone wanted to know if they needed to choose which group they wanted to
be a part of or if they could now join all of our groups and we want you guys to know
you can access any of our groups. They are all amazing. The survivors of narcissistic
abuse group grew from there zero people to three people, myself, Bree and Bobbi Parish
to like 60 people overnight. Bobbi, is it 60 or is it more now?
Bobbi: It is in the 70’s now. Athena: Yeah. It happens quickly. Community
happens quickly. And when you realize you have that mutual bond with someone, it’s
really special and the walls go down. Think of it as like you go to like a ballgame or
you go to a restaurant or you see somebody in a coffee shop and all of a sudden you realize
you’re from the same hometown. No way. You’re from Marshall, Minnesota. My parents live
in Marshall, Minnesota. No way. Like instantly, the walls come down that you’re not like “Who’s
the dude wearing the gray shirt in line at the coffee place right now. I don’t even
know him.” It’s not like that anymore. All the sudden you find out what. I mean it’s
just that that connection and when you have a survivor bond with someone, when you know
they lived through and survived the horrific crazy stuff that you lived through at the
hands of somebody else, there is nothing more welcoming and supportive than that.
Bobbi: And validating. Athena: Oh my god. Great word. Yes. It is
nothing more validating just to know that you’re heard. Someone asked me what I do
the other day and I just was not in the mood to describe to them everything that I do because
they have been minimizing of me before and just sort of minute like people pay you for
that type of the thing and I just didn’t feel like it and so I just, in response to the
question of what I did for a living, I said “I’m a professional listener.” You know.
Oh really. I was doing it to be a smart ass because I did not feel like being minimized
and made fun of in their own mind again. I know that that might be manipulative and wrong
of me but yeah, I’m a professional listener and I’m really good at it and people pay
me for that yes, to answer your previous question. No, I didn’t say that.
Bobbi: I understand. I lived in Kuwait for a couple of years and there was nothing like
walking down the street or going someplace and encountering someone who spoke English.
That was amazing. And if you do, if they were American, it was like waaah. If I had been
in the United States, I may have had nothing in common with them. But if you see them in
a place where you’re like the only one and pardon me but I kind of stick out, it’s not
like I can blend in with the crowd in Kuwait, in the Middle East.
When I would see someone else or meet someone who is American who spoke English, it was
like wooh, party. I feel not so alone. That is exactly the feeling about being in one
of our communities. So yes, join us and you don’t have to choose. You can join both groups.
Athena: Yeah and there’s a coed adult survivors of childhood sexual abuse group that’s led
by Bobbi Parish and Rachel Thompson who actually started #sexabusechat back in January of 2014.
That is one of the communities that you can be welcomed into that’s co-ed. Gosh I’m
really struggling with this piece of hair. It’s going to drive me crazy tonight.
Bobbi: You need a staple gun. Athena: I do. I just need to staple that one
little piece of hair there. We do have that co-ed group you guys and we haven’t started
up the group or spouses yet just because of the fact that it only Bobbi and myself right
now and I’ve just been handling travel and all this other kind of stuff and I just haven’t
set it at yet. But there is going to be a group for the spouses and partners and we
might even have it be like loved ones. I’m not really sure if we want to keep it broad
and then nudge it down later or we want to start small and then expand. I’m not really
sure yet. I want to talk Glen and I want to talk to Simmi and I want to ask him if they’re
okay if it’s like brothers and sisters and parents and like loved ones or if they want
to just keep it to partners and spouses because the nature of a partner-spouse relationship
with the survivor is very intimate. I’m thinking that maybe keeping it that way. I’m not
really sure. I’m thinking out loud. So we would love to hear your feedback if you’re
looking for a safe support group to help you practice emotional regulation. The best way
to learn emotional regulation is in community with other people who are learning it
Bobbi: and who are safe Athena: Who are safe, yes, you have to do
it with safe people. If you try to practice regulating your emotions, and you’re in the
middle of a meltdown or if you’re in crisis or if you’re triggered because the other person
is (a) not trauma informed, (b) not compassionate, (c) minimizing, (d), disrespectful and the
list goes on, then the chances of you mastering emotional regulation drastically go down.
However, this is the good news. When you are in a safe community with people who are validating,
kind, compassionate, they’re trauma informed, their part of the lived experience community
because hello, they lived it, they’ve lived the experience, all of a sudden, huh. I wake
up sometimes to someone posting in one of our groups “I’m having these thoughts. These
are the thoughts that are going through my head. Has anybody ever had thoughts like this
before?” And by the time I get to the thread, there’s 42 comments of people just surrounding
one of our peeps and just going “I have those thoughts all the time. And you want
to know something? The best thing that’s ever helped me in that situation is this. I’ve
done A, B and C and 1, 2, 3 and I can help you if you want. This is what we’ve done.
This is what I’ve done and it’s really help but you want to know it didn’t help me. It
didn’t help me if I was doing this sort of thing.” So all the sudden you walk into
a situation, someone’s already asked the question that you have been dying to ask and then there’s
42 comments of people going “oh” and they’re chiming in. I feel like it’s kind of like
a recipe. I wrote about this in the book that is being released right now you guys. It’s
like a recipe. One goes “Hey, does anybody have a really great recipe for like blueberry
muffins” and all the sudden there’s like 12 different recipes. “Oh you know what,
I didn’t think of using fresh berries or organic and that sounds amazing.” Like all the sudden
you pick your little ingredient that you’re so excited that other people have tried and
then you make your own masterpiece blueberry muffins and you’re like “These are the best
angry muffins I’ve ever had. This is my recipe. Because I took a little bit of this
and a little bit of this and a little bit of that and wow, I created this amazing recipe.”
And there’s this pride in that and so that is what you guys can do in safe community.
You can actually learn how to be more emotionally regulated by adopting the best practices of
other trauma survivors. I know that we have an entire OnePage and
we’re going to be teaching this topic tonight. We’re going to dive into that in a minute
all that but I just wanted to preface all of that that we’re going to be talking about
tonight and just let you know the best way for you to adopt the best practices of other
people who are trauma informed and who have conquered this and they have mastered it so
to speak or they’re on their way toward mastering it, is to be in a safe community filled with
people who get it. You can’t do this outside a community. It’s very difficult to do this
on your own, very, very, very difficult to do this on your own. Very difficult if not
impossible. So that is my soapbox rant. Bobbi, what do you have to say?
Bobbi: And you know, you can find your own best practices by interacting with people.
Each of us are going to have a different journey and you’re going to take like you said with
your recipe to take this advice from this person and this advice from this person and
this advice from this person. It’s not like we have the all knowing and all wise answer
for you. One of the things we’ve told you guys for the last year and we’ll keep telling
you is you are in charge of your recovery journey. It is yours. You have the power to
choose. Margaret talks more about that here in a minute when we’ll about emotional regulation.
So the things that you’ll hear in community are all wise and good suggestions and we trust
you to know how to put them together in a way that works for you. So we don’t want you
to think that if you join one of the communities, we’re going to give you all the answers for
you but we’re going to help you find your answers.
Athena: Yeah. That’s kind of what I meant. I didn’t mean you just get to show up. That
is what a great community is for. Like the podcasting community for instance, which,
oh by the way Melissa I got your email today regarding a podcast network and let’s talk
more about that. So Bobbi, I saved it in the inbox for you. It sounds like a really good
idea. Yeah. So we’ll talk more about that and yeah, like in the podcast in community,
someone’s like “Oh my gosh have you guys tried this and hey I did this with my iTunes
and all the sudden I’m getting more downloads. What platform are you using?” It’s neat
to see what other people are doing that they’re having success with and you could go “You
know what I use this program and I really like it” and all the sudden you are helping
others. It’s just the awesome reciprocity that goes on that’s amazing and it can’t
happen unless you’re in community. So yeah. Bobbi, remember this morning during chat and
you said “What’s our topic next week Athena?” and I couldn’t remember. I said I needed to
check my notes. I believe we discussed having one on community like all about the power
of community. And there was another one that was recommended when you are sexually abused
as a child and you become pregnant by your abuser. That was one of the ones that was
requested and then there was another one on I think it was anxiety which I think we may
have already done so. Bobbi: I will look at that.
Athena: I got bit by something you guys. I got bit by a bug underneath my eye. It’s
going to swell up really big just in time for my conference.
Bobbi: Should we talk emotional regulation? Athena: I think we should talk of emotional
regulation. For those of you that are listening on a podcast platform such as iTunes, Stitcher,
Spreaker, Sound Cloud or iheart radio, we are on a video broadcast right now and you
can have access to this OnePage downloadable resource that we’re about ready to bring up
by going to TraumaRecoveryUniversity.com and clicking on a tab that says Downloadables.
You can also access it by going to nomoreshameproject.com, click on the tab that says Downloadables and
you’ll be given immediate access to our complimentary library of downloadable resources and that’s
just as the thank you for supporting our awesome community and project that we’ve been working
on for the last year. So this is a thank you. We appreciate you. Thanks for subscribing.
Thanks for rating us. We have almost all five stars on Roku Bobbi. I think we have over
22 reviews. So for everybody that’s been rating us, we really appreciate it and we appreciate
the thumbs up on the YouTube videos and all of the YouTube comments. We appreciate you
guys. Bobbi: We have people that have been with
us since day one and it has been a magical thing to have started with you and I and idea
and now to have a YouTube channel that is really taking off and Roku TV channel and
15,000 people around the world listening and watching in support groups. It’s mind blowing.
Athena and I were talking just this morning about how much we absolutely positively love
what we do and it is our passion and it is our heart and we hope that you can see that
in the work that we do. So we want to make sure that you know that the reason that we’re
doing this is for all of you. And because Athena and I have both been there done that,
had very lengthy recoveries and we wanted to do something that would make recovery easier
and simpler for people. So that’s what we’re all about is giving you the tools that you
need as Athena says, to have a safe informed trauma recovery.
So let’s talk about emotional regulation. Emotional regulation is simply put the capacity
to control your emotions rather than have your emotions control you. It’s a phrase that
came out of primarily the dialectical behavior therapy framework. I just about said movement
but that’s not right. Marsha Linehan’s work, I like to call behavioral therapy. She’s the
founder of the theory and she put it together primarily to help people with borderline personality
disorder. That component of emotional regulation and helping people with it is something that
so many survivors need help with and that’s for a couple reasons.
First, it’s not like we got any help with emotional regulation as a child. Most children
who grow up in at least moderately healthy environments, their parents will help them
become emotionally regulated. When a three or four year old is lying down on the floor
having a temper tantrum, they are struggling with emotional regulation. And hopefully their
parent will give them a safe space to work their feelings out. And then when they’re
done having a tantrum, will sit down and talk with them about what they were feeling and
what happened and maybe what could be done differently the next time. Most of us grew
up in emotionally volatile and very chaotic emotional homes. Obviously sometimes that
you know the whole family structure was chaotic, but emotionally, chaotic in particular can
really mess with your capacity to regulate your emotions and then to make things even
more challenging, those of us who were exposed to prolonged periods of abuse particularly
between those ages about 3 and 8, we experienced brain damage to our part of our brain called
the amygdala. The amygdala is what helps moderate your emotional response. We will experience
the significant decline in our capacity to regulate our emotions when we have that damage
to our amygdala. So this is this is the reason why people will look at you when you emotionally
respond to someone and they’ll tell you “oh you’re just overreacting.”
This is what happens to us when we get stuck in a feeling of hopelessness and we can’t
get ourselves back out without someone else’s help. Or maybe we go into a rage and we can’t
get out of that rage until someone else helps us. So that’s what emotional regulation is
about and that’s why we as survivors struggle with it in particular. And unfortunately,
when we don’t get to learn that as a child, we bring that into adulthood and we bring
that into all of our relationships, whether it’s as a parent, as a spouse, as an employee,
all of these areas, we bring in our inability to regulate our emotions. I just want to say
that maybe it’s possible that you have a firm grasp on emotional regulation when things
are going well and you’re not stressed. But then when you get stressed, your emotional
regulation goes to heck in a hand basket. That’s normal and that’s ok. Athena talked
about how her memory is really giving her a hard time and that’s because under stress,
her executive functioning is showing the damage that her brain took as a result of her abuse.
So you may do okay until you hit a time of real stress and then things fall apart. So
we want to walk you through some information about strategies and tips that you can learn
and apply in order to help you with emotional regulation. So watch me as I pull it up.
Athena: I think mentioned this in a previous broadcast. But I got into a car accident before
I moved to Maui 10 years ago and when I went and got all my tests done for my car accident,
they asked me “Did you hit your head on the steering wheel or anything? And I said
“No. I braced myself.” And they said “Did you have any type of childhood trauma?”
They went into the deep long line of questioning regarding my childhood and I thought “I
got into it with a car accident. Like what’s your deal.” And I didn’t understand why
they would have this line of questioning. It turns out that that area of my brain like
my frontal lobe was completely the purple color instead of the green color or red or
whatever it was and it’s because of the years of prolonged horrific abuse and me being afraid
for my life on a daily basis for o many years. So it can damage you guys. It you damage you.
That’s ten years ago I’m turning 42 this year. This was I was 32 years old and I got
out of that crazy house when I was 17 and that’s how many years later the abuse was
still showing on the test whatever it was with the red and the green and the purple.
Bobbi: Right and it will continue too unfortunately. It’s not something that our brain repairs
except we can build new neural pathways. Athena: Yes which is awesome. I love it.
Bobbi: which is awesome but we can’t undo it. We can’t undo that damage. We just have
to learn ways to deal with it. Yes, yes, yes, yes. I’ve seen pet scans that they’ve done
where they’ve put the image of a damaged brain next to from someone who went to war and sustained
a traumatic brain injury and then they put next to it the pet scan of someone who was
exposed to abuse for significant periods of time during their childhood and they look
the same. They look the same. So don’t under estimate the role that your abuse has in what
you are struggling with today. Athena: And that’s not like a free pass like
a hall pass. Bobbi: No, no, no.
Athena: To go be a jerky guy, that you all wouldn’t do that but I want to be very clear
on this broadcast like we always are. We’re not making excuses for people and giving them
a hall pass to go like abuse people and be crazy and be rude and unkind and show up in
society in certain ways that are highly inappropriate or saying, there’s a reason, a justifiable
reason that our brain is a certain way and now, it’s our responsibility to make healthy
choices and different choices to live this life the absolute best way we possibly can
with the time we have left now that we’re not a child being abused anymore.
Bobbi: Right exactly. This is an explanation and it is not excuse.
Athena: Correct. Yeah. Bobbi: Ok. Some so some tips and strategies
to help you learn emotional regulation and you know, just right up front, this isn’t
something that you’re going to learn in a week. This isn’t something you’ll learn in
a month. This is something that you may very well practice parts of it for the rest of
your life but you will certainly get better at it after a couple of months.
Athena: Hey, welcome. Bobbi: The first one is learn to separate
your emotions from your identity. For example, you might feel the emotion shame but that
does not make you a shameful person. Your emotions are one part of you. They do not
define who you are. Develop the capacity to identify the emotions you’re feeling and those
being expressed by others. This is important because when you can name something, you can
deal with it. If you just feel like “Oh I’m upset” and you’re not able to say
“well I’m angry. I’m hurt. I feel betrayed.” You can’t deal with that. You can’t solve
this big blob of just emotion. You have to be able to pick out the different feelings
and cope with what is bringing those up and this is one of the things that we work so
hard to do with our children. If my son is upset, I’ll try and feed back to him the emotion
he’s feeling. “It looks like you’re really angry right now or are you sad. You look sad
to me.” So that he learns that he can name his emotions and then we can better learn
how to understand and cope with them. Recognize the role that emotions play in our
lives. This is something that, Athena: Bobbi?
Bobbi: Go ahead. Athena: On the top one where it says “You
may feel shame but that does not make your shameful person.” Something came up for
me when I was formatting and doing all of the graphics and stuff. I feel like somebody
needs to hear this right now. You might feel dirty. You might feel gross or used up or
unloved or unlovable or just whatever you might feel, that does not mean that that’s
who you are and it doesn’t mean that it’s true. It is a valid feeling. I want to validate
it that it is perfectly valid for you to feel dirty or used up or disgusting or unloved
or unlovable or unwanted or whatever. I’ve felt all of those things. I have felt every
single one of those things and I felt them more than one. But I have learned to separate
those emotions and feelings and thoughts from who I am as a person. Otherwise, it rips me
apart and shreds me for days and I’m literally not okay. So you might feel dirty or gross
or disgusting or used up or fill in the blank, not it is not who you are. You are amazing.
And there is a purpose for your life and we are here to help you find out what your purpose
is and to inspire you and encourage you and welcome you. So that’s all I wanted to say
Bobbi. Bobbi: You are absolutely right. You’re absolutely
right. That’s difficult for us sometimes to separate but the more that you practice that
when you’re not stressed and when you’re not upset, the more it will become second nature
when you are stressed or upset when someone says something like that to you or you’re
triggered by a memory that brings up that feeling of shame for you.
So recognize the role that emotions play in our lives. Sometimes we give them a larger
role than they are meant to fulfill. Emotions are simply a messenger. They tell us something.
If we feel angry, that’s telling us that somehow we feel like someone has let us down
or violated a boundary or there’s an injustice. If we feel happy, that’s a message letting
us know that something that we wanted or enjoy is happening. They’re not meant as a tool
to control us or anyone else and you very well may have experienced that as a child
when someone tried to control you with their anger or the other way around, control you
with their sadness Athena: or their silence
Bobbi: exactly, but that is not the role of emotions. Emotions are to give you information
and feedback. Take responsibility for your emotions. This is where we really have to
dispel myths that someone else can make you feel something. I know it’s one of my personal
pet peeves. When I hear someone say to me “You make me angry.”
Athena: “You make me so mad Bobbi. You make me so mad. You make me mad.”
Bobbi: And the irony is that I get it. But you know that’s not true. People can push
our buttons. Absolutely they can push your buttons. But your emotional reaction is your
responsibility. I realize that some of us, given our abuse, have a hair trigger for anger
and rage. I get it. And when someone pushes that button knowingly that is not okay but
you are still responsible for how you respond. Only you can choose what you allow or who
you allow to affect you. Athena: Yes. And if you guys are looking for
an example I had one of my abusers on the phone with me one time. And they were doing
their normal thing where they like push the little button. They like to bait certain thing
that they normally get a reaction out where I start to defend myself, or I start to act
a certain, or I always respond a certain way and when I didn’t, when I chose one day “You
know what? No.” Today is the day that I don’t allow that to affect me anymore. I get
my life back today. I’m not going to allow this person press my button and manipulate
me, shred me pretty and harm me anymore. No I’m going to be silent and calm. And you
want to know something you guys? I’ve never turned back. I’ve never turn back not with
that one person. I haven’t. I have not allowed that person to press those buttons ever again.
It felt so. Bobbi: I bet it did.
Athena: Oh my gosh I felt like I’d like the man and the masters of the universe. Oh
my gosh, Shira. Bobbi: I remember Shira. We’re dating ourselves
Athena. Athena: Oh my word. But yeah you guys, take
back your power. Don’t give your power to somebody else. Don’t let somebody else have
the freedom and the power to dial up a freaking telephone and to telephone you anytime they
want and to say a little something and to have you respond exactly the way they want
you to. Not anymore. You have a choice. It may take deep breathing. It may take pushing
the mute button while you scream. It may take anything. But guess what, the moment you respond
differently and you don’t fall into that same role that you fallen into for who knows how
many years, one two five ten twenty thirty forty fifty years and you feel what it feels
like to not play their game, I’m telling you, the clouds part and the angels sing Halleluiah
and you will never want to go back. I’m not saying that it wouldn’t happen again. I’m
not perfect. I could probably blow it tomorrow if I had to have a conversation but, this
is a game changer here. We’re on the fourth bullet point down, taking responsibility for
our emotions. Oh my god. Bobbi: We love lived experience in giving
nice examples for our own lives and from the lives of people who we’ve been told it’s ok
to share things. It makes it more real and it makes it tangible and not just something
that’s up on your computer screen. This next one is important. A lack of self
care contributes to a buildup of distressing emotions. If a lack of self care contributes
to a buildup of distressing emotions for you, then modify yourself care. This is something
like, “Do you get enough sleep? Are you eating properly? Are you in the company of
people who are healthy?” I know for me, when I do not get enough sleep, I can get
very, I lose control of my emotions very easily and when I am surrounded by people who are
harping or nagging or just generally trying to jump on my every trigger, I respond in
ways I wish I did not. Practice you’re self care. This is interesting because we learn
this with children. We learn that if my toddler does not get enough sleep, he has a grumpy
monkey. But somehow as adults this one goes right out.
Athena: We are superheroes. We do not need to get enough sleep or enough food or surround
ourselves with healthy awesome people or whatever. It all is a price to our kids.
Bobbi: Yeah, but yeah, this is important. If you can get enough sleep and by doing that
short circuit problems with your emotional regulation, then woohoo. That’s a simple fix.
Although I admit that some of us, it’s not like getting extra time for sleep will appear
out of nowhere but if you can get it, use it.
Athena: Sleep is the commodity that doesn’t come easily for many of us survivors like
we have nightmares or our sleep patterns are. We did an hour long video on sleep disturbances.
You can go on YouTube or Roku TV channel and you can watch that one or listen to that one
as well and I’m telling you, sleep is a big, big key because when you had enough rest,
you make better choices on what to eat. You’re not like “Oh I’m so exhausted. I don’t
feel like cooking something healthy for myself. I’m just going to grab some chips.” I’m
talking about myself here. So yeah everything, it’s a game changer when you actually get
rest. Bobbi: Yes it is. It is, it is. This next
one you know, I talk to people about this frequently, my private clients and this is
hard. I fully and completely acknowledge that this next one is hard. Learn how to tolerate
emotional distress. My psychiatrist says to me “Bobbi, you need to learn how to sit.”
She called it sit in distress so like sitting in the middle of a tornado going on around
you and you’re calmly with your eyes closed, visualizing your happy space and your blood
pressure isn’t going up. Because some of our emotions, they’re distressing
but we cannot respond to them in unhealthy ways without making it worse. Like Athena
talked about, she has an abuser she talks to on the phone who wants to push her buttons
and that probably initially is uncomfortable for Athena not to fall for that ploy. Because
the abuser doesn’t see her responding, the abuser may very well escalate his or her behavior
because it’s something that Athena so used to and it has cause distress in her past,
it may very well cause distress for her but she has to learn to sit there and feel that
distress but not acquiesce, not let the abuser have her power. So we oftentimes have to learn
how to sit in distress without turning to unhealthy coping techniques. This morning
in chat someone talked about numbing out. Yeah. Dissociating, numbing, eating, drinking,
distracting ourselves by unhealthy things. All of that is an unhealthy way to deal with
our distress. We have to learn to tolerate a certain amount of distress and we have a
couple of videos that might help you with this. One of them is an episode on crisis
management plans and the other is an episode on coping with overwhelming emotions.
Athena: Oh, that’s one. I couldn’t remember it when I was typing it out but it’s the
right. Bobbi: That’s okay, exactly as you wrote
that I thought of that one. So check both of those out on our YouTube channel and then
look for those OnePages in our library on NoMoreShame Project. And that marries really
well with this next tip which is to develop a solid repertoire of self soothing techniques.
What’s a self soothing technique? A self soothing technique is something that you do that will
soothe your distress. The very picture of this kind of behavior is what a parent will
do with a baby when a baby is upset. They will hold the baby and they will rock back
and forth and they’ll talk slowly and quietly and gently to the baby and they’ll just try
to soothe them into feeling better. We need to learn things that help us to sooth our
feelings. This morning someone brought up music, that music helps them to feel calmer
and help soothe them. Going for a walk might be soothing to you. Going to the gym and doing
some pretty amazing cardio workout will soothe those angry or upset feelings.
Athena: I like going for a drive. Bobbi: There you go, going for a drive. Distracting
yourself with a funny movie – that’s self soothing. Any of those things are self soothing.
Now there are some unhealthy things that are self soothing too like we just talked about
– over eating, drinking, doing any kind of drugs. Those are self soothing but they’re
unhealthy self soothing techniques. You need to learn. You need to have a good repertoire
I would say of about three or four and know those ahead of time. Always have a plan before
you get into your distress because that’s not a good time. At that time your executive
functioning is gone to heck in a hand basket, you’re not going to be able to come up with
ideas. I’m upset. I know when I’m in distress. I know I need to self sooth but I can’t remember
what it was that I was going to do. Have a list.
Athena: Sounds like me. Bobbi: Yeah. Have a list. Have a plan beforehand
while you’re calm. This is going to be my action plan for the next time that I get distressed.
I’m going to try A. If A doesn’t work, I’m going to do B. If B doesn’t work, I’m
going to do C. If C doesn’t work, I’m going to do D. And if that doesn’t work then
I’m going to reach out to a helping professional and ask them to please assist you in dealing
with your distress. Athena: Yeah. I’ve reached out to our safe
community before, one of our safe communities. Last week I was having some overwhelming emotions
regarding my travel and it was because one of my abusers used to make the biggest deal
out of if I would travel and go anywhere like “Where are you going? What hotel are you
staying at? What about your flight? What airliner are you flying? Are you running a car?”
Because they just wanted to know everything, it was like the biggest deal ever and so whenever
I would have a trip planned, I would have this buildup of anxiety and stress because
I knew that I would have to brace myself for the barrage that was coming. I didn’t realize
how abusive or inappropriate that behavior was until I got away from it and bottom line,
if you’re over ten eleven twelve fifteen seventeen eighteen years old and someone’s treating
you like that, yeah, might not be too healthy folks. Didn’t know that. Didn’t know that.
I’m 42. That was happening to me up until just recently about a year or two ago. Yeah
I reached out to our through our safe community and I said “I’m feeling all of these emotions
right now. I don’t think these are sexual abuse related. I do think that it’s because
of the narcissistic abuse that I’ve lived through and so anyway I just wanted to get
that out there.” And it’s really neat guys is you have a safe community that you’re plugged
into and you do have some emotional distress that you’re pretty close to regulating but
you’re not sure. You just sort to just like reach out for a lifeline sort of a thing.
It’s really neat to have an entire group of people that accept you, love you and appreciate
you and are willing to listen or validate or give you great advice. So that’s part of
my crisis management plan is having community in place if my other self eating techniques
are not employed in time or I’m not able to ground
Bobbi: Right. Athena: Yeah or deep breathing or going for
a drive or whatever. If I find that I’m still not feeling well, I’ll reach out my
safe community and it always helps me. Bobbi: And that’s great fifth step in the
plan. After you have tried them all, they’ve exhausted, then reach out to someone. Reach
out to the helping professional or your support group and they most hopefully assuredly will
help you to get grounded. We have so many people tweeting in. Stu mentions that he does
support groups for partners and he can help us get that set up so that is wonderful.
Athena: Wonderful. Oh I’m so excited for that.
Bobbi: Okay so let’s finish this one up and it is: learn how to effectively and consistently
convert distressing emotions to pleasant ones with behavior choices and changes. That’s
a mouthful. What does it actually mean? I’ll tell you what it means. All right so, I’m
angry. One of my abusers has done something and my response to that has been anger. And
so now I’m walking around my house and I am just angry, angry, angry and now I’m
angry at myself for being angry. And I’m angry because I needed today to be a productive
day. It’s not being a productive day because I’m angry. One of the best things that you
can do is turn your emotions around by starting to do things that will create positive emotions.
So something that will usually feel positive for me is spending some time with my son,
playing a game with him, playing a video game, playing a board game, taking the dog out and
throwing a ball and letting him come back with it, hanging out with him, carrying him
around, whatever that is, phoning a friend. I have to talk to them about my anger. I don’t
have to talk to them about anything really, just connecting with them and experiencing
their warmth and their kindness. All of those things that you do will begin to turn your
emotions toward something more positive. The last that you want to do is keep engaging
in things that will make you angry. So that’s what I mean when I say convert your distressing
emotions to pleasant ones with behavior choices and changes. That is so important. That is
one of the critical skills in dialectical behavior therapy with emotional regulation
and again, when you’re sitting down, you’re making now your action plan for what you’re
going to do next time you feel triggered and you feel like you’re experiencing so much
anger or so much pain, make a list. These are things that normally can turn my mood
around. There are people out there that will tell you time and time again that your behavior
determines your emotions. And I don’t know if that’s always the case but it’s sometimes
the case. Athena: It’s been the case a lot for me personally
but I know it’s not for everyone. But for me, if I make a choice you guys, my emotions
follow 100% of the time and it doesn’t always happen quickly but it does happen for me personally.
I can only talk for myself in my own recovery that if I make a choice and I know it’s a
big step for me I’ve made this choice like for me like personally like the choice of
forgiveness like I want to forgive somebody because I don’t want to feel bitter any more.
I just want to let go of that, for me personally, forgiving someone means letting go of the
need to change the past or to punish them or whatever. just letting it go. I’m choosing
you know what. I think I’m done here. I’m done. I just want to forgive this person because
the more I hold on this need to change things from a long time ago that I can’t do, the
more ugh. I feel emotionally disregulated. So my choice in choosing to let that go or
I guess the word forgive. People often tend to confuse forgiveness with reconciliation.
I’ll never be reconciled to the people that did horrific, horrible, awful terrible things
to me. But I’m letting go of the need to change the past because I literally can’t
change it. It’s always going to be my past but that’s what it is. As soon as I made that
choice like that’s what I’m going to do, all the sudden, I felt free. I felt like oh
my gosh. I’m not thinking about this 24/7 anymore. I’m free. I’m very productive now
because I’m not spending all this emotional energy focused in that direction and so it
is just really freeing for me. I don’t know and that’s just one example. I know that we
already have a video on forgiveness. Bobbi: Yeah. It takes practice and it takes
time and we don’t want to convey to you guys that just by throwing up this OnePage that
if you do a b and c tomorrow, it’s all going to be better. Chances are high that it’s not
going to be but if you continue to practice these, it will be. If you would like to be
in a supportive community that will allow you to practice it without being bashed over
the head, we would love to welcome you into one of those.
Athena: I’m sorry to interrupt. Bobbi: No, no go ahead. I am just done.
Athena: Simmi just tweeted really awesome thing and she said that one of the therapists
they know told them emotions aren’t permanent. They even flow. And that is so helpful guys
to know “I’m feeling this way but it’s temporary. I’m not going to feel it forever.
I’m not even feeling this way tomorrow. I might not feel this way in 10 minutes. But
I feel this way right now and it’s okay.” Bobbi: Yes yes yes yes. By all means don’t
beat yourself up if you’re feeling a particular emotion. Now if you’re doing something that’s
not healthy because of that emotion such as inflicting harm on another human being.
Athena: Or yourself. Bobbi: Or yourself, yes, then that’s another
thing. But just feeling angry, when I was a child in my upbringing, I was taught that
feeling anger or jealousy was a sin. The minute that something like that came into my mind,
I was sitting and it was so hard to stop myself from ever feeling angry. And every time I
felt angry, I was so ashamed and I knew that god, I thought because that’s what I had been
told of course that God was looking down, I mean strike me with thunder bolts because
I felt angry. But now I know that’s not true. But some of us have been taught some really
unhealthy things about emotions and we’re here to tell you that feeling any emotion
is okay. It’s what you do with that where things can fall apart.
Athena: Exactly bobby and there are a lot of people that are here for our broadcast
that listen to our broadcast or watch them that we’re told they’re from that era that
we’re from where they’re told that if they showed any emotion as a child, they showed
any emotion as a kid like let’s say they cried, “Shut up. I’ll give me something to cry
about.” And it’s like you’re crying because something bad happened. You don’t just cry
for funzies. You cry because somebody hit you or bully you or did something bad to you
or they’re abusing you or they stole something from you or you fell down and you hurt yourself,
you scared yourself, you’re bleeding ever, whatever it might be. That’s why people cry
and if you were told constantly as a child like “What are you crying about? I’ll
give you something to cry about. You better stop it.” That is a complete disaster as
an adult because then all of a sudden you are like, I heard people say like “I haven’t
cried since I was 11 years old.” I don’t know. I just don’t know how healthy it is
to not ever feel emotion since you were eleven. I don’t if that’s one hundred percent. I’m
not judging. I’m not judging. I’m just saying you know. Wow. Like. There had to be some
stuff. Bobbi: Exactly or some powerful lessons that
we experienced as a child. Athena: I think I just hit a nerve on about
32,000 people right now. Bobbi: It’s funny as you were talking I
was remembering, I don’t know why he would say this but my grandfather used to say to
me. When I cry about something he would say “Come here. I’ll give you something to
cry about. I’ll cut your thumb off.” And he’d pull his pocket knife out of his pocket.
Athena: Oh my gosh. Bobbi: Like you hear things like that as a
child. Athena: Yeah. That’s traumatizing.
Bobbi: You learn very quickly that emotions are not okay.
Athena: Yeah you better keep it together. Come on. Keep it together otherwise I’ll
cut your thumb off. Bobbi: Yeah. Awful stuff, good grief.
Athena: Oh my goodness. I know we went over on time. Should we show our contact information
for people or should we just say it in closing? Bobbi: Let’s just say it really quick.
Athena: Okay. Well, we appreciate your time and taking your evening or your day or your
drive into work or whatever it is that you do when you listen to us and watch us. We
show up here every single week, myself Athena Moberg and my amazing partner Bobbi Parish.
We show up here every single week to share with you tips and tricks and strategies and
open dialogue, open honest dialogue and practical application, practical strategies that you
can use today to feel better if you are an adult survivor of childhood sexual abuse or
any type of child abuse actually. And if you like this broadcast, please have a thumbs
up or rate us on whatever platform it is that you have found us so that we can continue
to give you free resources. And if you want to reach my amazing partner Bobbi Parish,
you are going to email her at [email protected] You can find her on Twitter at @bobbiLParish.
You can find her at the traumarecoverycoach.com or bobbiparish.com. You can also find her
on Facebook at Facebook.com/BobbiParishCoachingandconsulting. You can just reach both of us at [email protected]
I’m on Facebook and Twitter as AthenaMoberg or AthenaMobergSpeaking. Oh I received an
email today from somebody on my personal private e-mail. I don’t know how you found my personal
private email address that I don’t ever give out publicly and you need help. And I understand
that you need help and I will probably respond to you from our project email address because
that is where I receive or my business email address such as [email protected] So
his name is Andy Bobbi and he said that he is reaching out for help and he hasn’t heard
back from us. He didn’t hear back from you and he hasn’t heard back from me. So we’re
really sorry that you haven’t heard back. Did you receive an email from him?
Bobbi: I did. Athena: Yeah. It’s just the two of us. We’re
doing our very, very best. If you don’t hear back from us in 24 to 48 hours, we’re doing
the best we can. We are going to help as much as we can. My very first thing that I would
love to say is just get plugged into one of our safe communities and that way you have
community support 24/7, 365 and it’s not only up to Bobbi or myself to help and support
you. That is why we set up safe communities because we are too human being and we’re
not super heroes. So we love each and every one of you. It is our honor and our joy to
show up here everything single week. Bobbi, would you have any parting thoughts for today’s
episode? Bobbi: Again I’m so honored that all of
you come every week and be with us. And then you share the information with others who
need it. It is always awesome when we get an email or tweet from someone who says “so
and so told me to contact you guys or so and so showed me one of your videos.” So keep
sharing. Share the videos. Share the Twitter chats. Let people know there’s Facebook groups.
That’s how we’ll get more people into the awesomeness that our community’s for, helping
them heal and recover. Athena: Yeah, continue to share the love you
guys. We’re so grateful for each and every one of you and please rate our podcast so
that we can continue to give out free resources. And if you are going to be in Birmingham,
Alabama the weekend as September 18th, then I would love for you to purchase a ticket
and attend the conference that I am speaking at. It’s the VIP Leader’s conference We’re
going to be in Birmingham, Alabama. So you’d like more information on that, then please
contact me over in [email protected] Otherwise I will be in a West Palm Beach Florida
in November. I’ll be in Montgomery, Alabama in November and I will be hopefully in Seattle
or Portland, I can’t remember which, towards the end of the year. So we love you guys.
And this is me Athena Moberg and my partner Bobbi Parish and we’re signing off of this
episode of Trauma Recovery University where we love to bring you everything you need for
healthy, informed trauma recovery. Aloha.