The dispute between the United States and China… …is about much more than trade For everything from blockbuster films… …to lunar exploration… …from semiconductors to submarines In every domain, they’re now rivals Superpower relations have soured America thinks that China is stealing secrets… …stealing its way to dominance And then it looks at Chinese behaviour in the South China sea… …and bullying countries like Canada and Sweden… …and it thinks that China’s beginning to challenge global norms But it looks very different from Beijing From its point of view… …America is trying to block its entirely justified rise For everyone else it seems like the beginnings of a new kind of cold war A cold war that everybody could lose Of course America has fought a cold war before with the Soviet Union… …and it won So why not just do the same thing again and cut China off? Isolate it economically Well it’s a bit more complicated than that In the late 1980s the United States and the Soviet Union… …did about $2bn-worth of trade a year Today China and the United States do $2bn-worth of trade a day And then there are the allies who helped America… …in the first cold war with the Soviet Union Well they do a lot of business with China… …they want to be able to trade with it It would cost them a lot to stop… …so to persuade them that they must choose security… …over their own prosperity… …would be very hard indeed The first thing is that the United States… …needs to build on its strengths These are often institutions and alliances… …the institutions that the United States built after the second world war The second thing the United States needs to do… …is to shore up its defences And that means defending itself militarily… …through cyber and space… …but also defending its technology But the third thing is that the United States and China… …need to learn how to live together… …in a low-trust world China and America don’t have to agree about everything… …in order to agree that they should live by some global norms So you need to find ways to build trust Over North Korea say… …over rules for cyberwar or space war China is challenging America in every domain Business and a profit motive are no longer enough… …to keep this relationship together What the relationship desperately needs… …is the building of trust and the building of rules Unfortunately just now both sides see rules as something to break

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100 thoughts on “America v China: a new kind of cold war | The Economist”

  1. they are fighting over influence. but US strategy quite stranged according to US campaign in the past about free trade.

  2. It’s full of shit. Everyone knows we know to build trust. But how? Increasing defense budget??Is Starting another arm race such a brilliant way to build?

  3. China lies through its teeth. Remember Xi standing with Obama and saying China would not militarize the South China sea? China cannot be trusted period.

  4. The reason is simple: there is not enough 3rd world counties to exploit for both the US and China (especially after China transition to exploitor from exploitee), and there are also EU, Russia, Japan, Korea, etc… What a crowded world.

  5. China should build few more aircraft carrier and position in Pacific ocean…need another 6 aircraft carrier…
    The collapse of us petrol dollar and us economy….. depression soon.

  6. Its a redistribution of global supply chain and economics. Its not a cold war, its a warm one. US could only slow down the rise of China, and reorganize its economic power at the time. This game ends when both countries are satisfied with their balance point and shake hands.

  7. The free world assume China will play fair with their honour system lol. If China can’t even comply with a written contract, how on earth can you build trust with it

  8. The long oppressed people of China will dismantle the cabal leadership destroying that country….so let it be written, so let it be done…

  9. People ignore the atrocities that China committed and still is…

    No knowledge of its labor camps, intellectual property theft and bad trade practices. (worse than the US)

    The media is good keeping you ignorant.

  10. Bullying Canada and Sweden? F*cking western media! Why not cut china off?
    We are the good boys, they are bad people! What has the USA in the world? Spy, bully and establish dictatures! Steal resources. Sanction other countries.

  11. The United States of America is, at least in what it stands for, a Paragon for the virtues of Free Markets, and Citizens' Rights. To the founding fathers, whom the American Populous praise (Without Government Pressure, I might add), People have certain Natural Rights that cannot be infringed upon by the Government. Of course that is the Ideal, but we Americans have quite a large amount of Freedoms in this country, compared to the Chinese and other Foreign Populations. Red China on the other hand is an Oppressive, Communistic Regime that flaunts its violations of trade regulations, censors its people, hides what the citizenry can see to avoid a negative light being shined on their misdeeds. That's not even to mention the rampant oppression of the Moslem Uighurs and Tibetans. When it was founded under the brutal Mao Tse-Tung, the CCP tossed out all that was traditional about Chinese Culture, and attempted to replace it with an abomination. The Point is: Red China has some serious baggage, such as the deaths of tens of millions of people under Chairman Mao, the Tiananmen Square Massacre, despite the fact they constantly deny it, and it's abuse of it's Citizens' Natural Rights. America shall not, and should never, bend the knee to Communist China.

  12. add the missing Taiwan Province back to the map first, please. It's written in the constitution of both PRC and ROC that Taiwan is part of China, so stop being ignorant while pretending to be smart.

  13. The way war mongers profit from killing our young men and women is disgusting. Medals , hero praise . All very hollow when the legs are blown off. How many died fighting the Germans and Japanese? ……now we drive Toyotas and BMW's…….and the fat ones continue to count their money,  while we visit the cemeteries. .

  14. Uncle Sam, why don't you hinder China from using the internet, that makes a really cold war is it? They will be behind you 5 folds if you do.


  16. We Chinese actually like the discriminations & misunderstandings from the West, which indicate how stupid and arogent they are. When the day they come to realize and no more misunderstandings about China, China is the realsuper power and as developed as the West.

  17. So what the highly troubled relationship between the US and China needs is trust and rules, but neither side seems intent on building either. So then what now?

  18. Why does the tone of the video indicates that Chinese will be a danger if rises to the top ? If there is a competition of who can be better at bullying other countries, I am sure US would beat China. Just look what US did to Japan when it threatened US economically around 2000

  19. You really think we want to fight a cold war?

    China's history is never a history of aggression, compared to the west, we seldom rule over other countries, and we seldom kill people of other countries. Although I have to agree that China have made many, sometimes fatal mistakes in its history, but these mistakes most often are classic examples of infighting, which does not bother YOUR national security.

    China's recent 150 years is characterised by humiliation and colonialisation, and of course, the predestined fightback. So we don't trust each other that much, but there is one thing I am sure: All of China's decisions on foreign affair is to ensure the very livelihood of our 1.4 billion population, which are mostly comprised of poor workers (please, we are a classic developing country). These workers need to buy gasoline for their cars, and sell the steel they made to feed their kids. This is why we fortified islands in South China sea to secure our trade route for strategic supply like oil. Yes, it makes our neighbors, like Vietnam unpleasant, but this is comparatively more pleasant than the millions died and tons of "agent orange" dumped during Vietnam war! This is why we "colonialised" Africa by giving them loans, selling them steel and helping them to build roads and proper housing. Yes, conflicts may be arised when people from different cultures work together, but this is still more pleasant than the slave trade in ivory coast and the chaos the West left!

    Although in a less straightforward manner, there is a tendency for the western elites to continue to pursue global dominance, like in its good old days. Nobody want to eat a cold 2 dollar tuna sandwich when he has tasted a luxurious 3 course meal. But I am sorry, nobody, no matter it is Africa, India, Latin America, Southeast Asia, or China, will also you so. And please! You got more important thing to do! Fix your broken healthcare system! Fix your overpriced college education which is jeopardizing the youth! And please! together! Do something about global warming! It's now like Sahara in Paris and Beijing. Please step out of your AC room in white house Mr. Trump and you will know global warming is no "fake news".

    In conclusion, China does not have any intention to start a cold war, and both China and the West do not have adequate resources to endure one. Lastly and most important, climate change and inequality do not give us enough time to play another childish, meaningless zero-sum game!

  20. Only one thing US need to do. Change to a President with proper brain. Not someone brainless, shameless, worthless minus the peanut in his skull. Also change this host. Period

  21. China’s going to win. We suck at education. As a nerd I can verify how much the average person hates “smart” people or people who value knowledge. People hire their “friend” in America, not qualified individuals.

  22. A trade deal is not a war. Negotiation is not war. Doing better deals takes time. Just doing a bad deal quickly to keep the media happy is stupid.

  23. I don't think a random in bread British dude with a $20/hr salary knows what big countries with big economies should be doing.

  24. Only a fool will deny that Taiwan is a part of China. According to that map, apparently this guy is a fool. I just wanna say this. Fuck the war. We want peace. And someone is gonna say fuck the peace. Who is gonna say?

  25. I don't think America won a cold war with the Soviet Union as they claim, so much as the Soviet Union defeated itself by overextending throughout a vast territory the stretched all the way to Afghanistan.

  26. The United states economy is gonna fall down, the petro dollar is gonna devalue ,i give it 2 to 4 years , that's why the united states wants the third war.

  27. All times are about war. You don’t think a war is going to cost you. You rationed during ww2 are you going to ration now.

  28. I bet these people are laughing at the jokes – LOL Progressive America
    The bombing list
    Korea and China 1950-53 (Korean War)
    Guatemala 1954
    Indonesia 1958
    Cuba 1959-1961
    Guatemala 1960
    Congo 1964
    Laos 1964-73
    Vietnam 1961-73
    Cambodia 1969-70
    Guatemala 1967-69
    Grenada 1983
    Lebanon 1983, 1984 (both Lebanese and Syrian targets)
    Libya 1986
    El Salvador 1980s
    Nicaragua 1980s
    Iran 1987
    Panama 1989
    Iraq 1991 (Persian Gulf War)
    Kuwait 1991
    Somalia 1993
    Bosnia 1994, 1995
    Sudan 1998
    Afghanistan 1998
    Yugoslavia 1999
    Yemen 2002
    Iraq 1991-2003 (US/UK on regular basis)
    Iraq 2003-2015
    Afghanistan 2001-2015
    Pakistan 2007-2015
    Somalia 2007-8, 2011
    Yemen 2009, 2011
    Libya 2011, 2015
    Syria 2014-2015
    Don't forget the native Indians, Mexicans and the civil wars

  29. When we were the Sick Man of Asia, we were called The Yellow Peril.
    When we are billed to be the next superpower, we are called The Threat.
    When we closed our doors, you smuggled drugs to open markets.
    When we embrace Free Trade, You blame us for taking away your jobs.
    When we were falling apart, You marched in your troops and wanted your fair share.
    When we tried to put the broken pieces back together again, Free Tibet you screamed, It Was an Invasion!
    When tried Communism, you hated us for being Communist.
    When we embrace Capitalism, you hate us, for being Capitalist.
    When we have a billion people, you said we were destroying the planet.
    When we tried limiting our numbers, you said we abused human rights.
    When we were poor, you thought we were dogs.
    When we loan you cash, you blame us for your national debts.
    When we build our industries, you call polluters.
    When we sell your goods, you blame us for global warming.
    When we buy oil, you call it exploitation and genocide.
    When you go to war for oil, you call it liberation.
    When we were lost in chaos and rampage, you demanded rules of law.
    When we uphold law and order against violence, you call it violating human rights.
    When we were silent, you said you wanted us to have free speech.
    When we are silent no more, you say we are brainwashed-xenophobes.
    “Why do you hate us so much?” we asked.
    “No,” you answered, “we don't hate you.”

  30. I just realized my favorite kind of cookies made in China is gonna be gone T-T im going back to China without my favorite food I can't live anymore why

  31. do you really believe there's trust in geopolitics? any powerful country can force their side of truth to the world. there's only the illlusion of trust.

  32. China’s Stealing? When I started graduate school in physics there were 18 students; 2 Americans, 1 Malaysian, and 1 Indian. All the rest were Chinese and they were good! They didn’t have the technical skills an American might have but they knew their math. They’s been busting their tails studying math since elementary school and worked very hard as students. They learned quickly cuz they had discipline. Now the USA produces a few hundred thousand engineering, math, and science college graduates per year. The Chinese produce 2.7 million. That culture knows what hard work is. I worked for a company that opened a plant in China. They knew full well what the deal was but would do absolutely anything to get into that market. Stop blaming China for what results from American greed and sloth. I’ve worked for many companies and time again observed stupid management and incompetent CEOs; all mostly enjoying their job titles rather then do much else.

    The USA can’t compete cuz the US has no long term plan other then near term profits. Right now all the US can do is try to slow China down. Even slowed down China’s economy is growing 3 times faster then the USA as the USA aims at both its feet and shoots.

  33. America voted Mr trump who does not follow rules or agreement. His got 2 personality. People don't want to believe on Mr trump who's full of bull shit.

  34. Australia are alliance with America. But Australia are friends worldwide also. Australia are wice and not stupid like Americans.

  35. The US should improve relations with it's allies and strengthen ties, and trade relations with EVERY nation but china and it's communist allies (also excluding middle east regions that are under dictatorships) and make it easy for the world to trade with america again. Make America more attractive and china less.

  36. Trump is an acolyte to the Russians.  He has never been man enough to step on the battlefield for America. Therefore he can't possibly ever appreciate respect comprehend loyalty devotion discipline commitment stability heart that pumps blood throughout the body of  the American soldier who lived fought became partially or completely paralyzed   dying on the battlefield  So the next best thing in his feeble mind frail body is to be a traitor.  So if you support somebody here in life whose soft lazy out of shape over fed undernourished feebleminded physically inadequate submissive subservient. Which could be genetic hereditary or simply a generic learned behavior which I just specified how to be neglectful to oneself which is more pathetic at of the two. In this case Trump is a combination of the worst-case scenarios of those two extreme possibilities. So What kind of spiritual kickback to you think you are entitled to for that type of support.   Even if you are not a trumpet blower"  but are freely living dining to the lowest standards of quality at the same time living dying off having only used the smallest percentage of a fraction of the true potential you were first born with.  You're just as bad if not worse. Case closed mercy forgiveness spiritual welfare are not changing those facts protecting carrying compensating any souls or spirits that are freely connected to a life that does not do its best to improve upon and maintain the quality of it.  Which can be demonstrated by doing your best to become physically fit mentally sound spiritually balanced being able to express physical freedom living up to the pleasure potential responsibility of femininity and masculinity which validates confirms signifies one as being true towards love honor and the creation of life.   In layman's terms if life is not free why the hell would death be any cheaper.  The good news souls and spirits have paid out are picking up the tab on the end results of dirty low-paying jobs. True punishment is souls and spirits have been are being, managed directed maintain swapped out implemented  with all the disease sickness illness pain injuries suffering torment abuse and neglect hunger" that has been allowed to occur manifesting throughout the history of mankind into what it is today thanks to people like Donald Trump. Here's the deal you're either part of the world solutions or exacerbating the world's problems either way each and every one of us is being held spiritually accountable for each and every moment. Whether you believe are not as secondary to the truth.          Now I wish and pray for my soul and spirit to be held spiritually accountable too the statements I proclaim. I guarantee you never see hear another body man in power persons of legal religious authority leaders ever freely validate the statements they proclaim with that level of certainty. One reason they don't have the best interest of the majority of the population's needs at heart) another reason could be they cum from a breed of cowards or  simply have a lifestyle that suggests confirms validates them as being feebleminded physically inadequate submissive subservient it doesn't get any worse than that case closed.   Hope you don't miss the deadline. Chuckle Laugh smile grin smile I say with confidence don't be scared as I know you're scared. S.R.F.

  37. The title is spot on the analysis and commentary irrelevant. 
    Mr. Carr, you sound more like a preacher than the Economist. Your job is to provide news & offer critical analysis. Very disappointing.

  38. Behind the Barbed Wire: China's Concentration Camps

    October 18, 2019

    By Tony Perkins

    "I had to be strong. Every day when I woke up, I thanked God that I was still alive." –Sayragul Sauytbay, Uyghur
    There are harrowing stories — and then there are the stories that seep deep into our bones. Sayragul Sauytbay's is the kind you don't forget. Her survival in China's concentration camps isn't just a miracle — it's a warning that true darkness has settled over parts of the East. The most excruciating forms of torture are happening behind barbed wire walls that Beijing has tried hiding. And for the million people trapped inside, the only hope they have to escape their tormentors is international attention and pressure.
    Kidnapped by state officials in the middle of the night, Sayragul remembers the terror of being taken — her head covered in a black sack. Told she was being taken to a camp to "teach Chinese," she didn't know where she was — only that she'd stepped into a living nightmare. Forbidden to cry or speak, she changed into prison clothes and watched her hair fall when her head was shaved. Cramped into a room with 20 others, she found out that her feet would be shackled from then on — even in sleep. The punishment for even the smallest things, she says, was constant.
    "Torture — metal nails, fingernails pulled out, electric shocks…" David Stavrou, who tells her story, writes that the camp's commanders set aside a room to inflict the worst kind of pain imaginable. The inmates called it the "black room," because they were forbidden from mentioning it. "There were all kinds of tortures there. Some prisoners were hung on the wall and beaten with electrified truncheons. There were prisoners who were made to sit on a chair of nails. I saw people return from that room covered in blood. Some came back without fingernails." Every prisoner was forced to take pills and get injections — treatments they didn't realize were slowly sterilizing them. Others were the subject of gory human experiments.
    Every evening was devoted to the listing of sins, which the prison guards defined as everything from not learning Chinese properly to sleeping on the wrong side to refusing to sing propaganda songs. Stavrou pauses, watching the tears well up in Sayragul's eyes. They're in Sweden, where Sayragul was finally granted asylum after her escape. She starts to talk about the young girls, her voice breaking. The policemen, she explains, would take the pretty ones away with them, raping them until they couldn't sit down.

    "One day, the police told us they were going to check to see whether our reeducation was succeeding, whether we were developing properly. They took 200 inmates outside, men and women, and told one of the women to confess her sins. She stood before us and declared that she had been a bad person, but now that she had learned Chinese she had become a better person. When she was done speaking, the policemen ordered her to disrobe and raped her one after the other, in front of everyone. While they were raping her, they checked to see how we were reacting. People who turned their head or closed their eyes, and those who looked angry or shocked, were taken away — we never saw them again. It was awful. I will never forget the feeling of helplessness, of not being able to help her."

    Sayragul didn't sleep much after that. Even now, she closes her eyes and sees their faces. "I will never forget the camp. I cannot forget [them]. They are innocent. I have to tell their story, to tell about the darkness they are in, about their suffering."
    Adrian Zenz is one of the few people who was determined to prove that this was happening. Working alone at a cramped desk, he has spent years combing through the data on the internet, trying to prove to the West that these camps exist. His research, a slow and tedious process, led him to a trail of bidding papers, budget plans, and satellite images that show the quiet construction of these torture chambers — holding as many as a million and a half people just like Sayragul. "I feel very clearly led by God to do this… I'm not afraid to say that," Adrian insists.
    Thursday, on "Washington Watch," he explained how his work forced the Chinese to admit the camps exist. "I had felt leading from God to just keep doing that data search… Nobody else was interested. Nobody was publishing it. I never had a media request over it. I was just quietly slaving away — and it was a huge amount of work… And then came the time when I clearly felt, 'I'm supposed to do this.' I felt God saying to me, 'You should stick out your head.'"
    He did, going public with thousands of pages of documents. Suddenly, the Chinese went into propaganda mode, "inviting the media and diplomats and visitors from overseas to visit these camps… We can see on satellite how they have taken away some of the watch towers. They have removed some of the barbed wire, some of the high walls and the cameras inside the classrooms, and they make people smile and dance." But the smiles are hollow — like their hope that help will come.
    If they've lost faith, it's because some Americans haven't given them any. The NBA, Apple, Google, Hollywood, and countless others seem willing to do anything to protect their interests in China — even if it means condoning a regime of unspeakable horrors. But make no mistake: every pair of shoes they sell, every iPhone, every Hollywood movie script written to gain approval of the communists' censors is facilitating the real-life horror that is playing right now in China. Until these companies find their voice, a million Sayraguls waste away — casualties of cowardice we should all be ashamed of.

  39. Want to know how the world works? Look to nature. When two species, or groups compete for the same niche they separate to live in isolation, merge, or one dies off. The young buck is getting stronger at the expense of the old stag, and wants the stag's herd. There will be a conflict. Refer to the ancient Greek historian Thucydides, if you think humans are different. Warnings of trade imbalance which builds one while destroying the other have existed for centuries, but no one listens like the warnings of overpriced levels in the stock market that precede crashes. Greed overrides all.

  40. China does steal intellectual property they've been stealing US military secrets for years look at their planes and helicopters and other military hardware stolen from the United States and also stealing from the private sector China needs the United States more than we need them and I think it is great that we are finally not taking any shit from the rest of the world Europe can't even pay its NATO dues Trump said in the very beginning he wants reciprocal trade but no other countries wanted that they wanted to keep fucking the United States well it's not happening not under his watch thank God we have him as president he will set the shit straight fuck China none of their neighbors like them anyway and the South China Sea is something they came up with them Islands the spratly islands do not belong to them just like a Chinaman always a thief and what I can't stand is how our military is in Europe defending Europeans on United States taxpayer dollars to protect you douchebags from Russia If I Was President of the United States I would pull our military right out of Europe and watch you be invaded within a week

  41. USA has been stealing technology from Europe since its inception.They want access to all patents and scientific information from every country in europe.Especialy Germany and Russia.Usa doesn't have the geographic position to be a scientific powerhouse. And on top of that Us students are significantly outperformed by Russian German Chinese and 30 other nations

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